Your advice for a first time birder.

[offshorebirder]

10 hours ago, Peter Connan said:

the camera is more useful as an identification tool.

 

Unless the bird is in cover or brush - binoculars can easily penetrate it, but try getting a decent photo under such conditions...

[Galana]

3 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

My tip is carry a back up camera too!

Steady on. I'm a struggling pensioner.

[Dave Williams]

2 hours ago, offshorebirder said:

 

Unless the bird is in cover or brush - binoculars can easily penetrate it, but try getting a decent photo under such conditions...

 

I can never remember the finer details so a photo is the only way for me and what you see you should be able to photograph if you have time!

[offshorebirder]

The point I was trying to make @Dave Williams was that binoculars can give you a view of the entire bird (not sections of it) by 'penetrating' cover, aided by our two eyeballs at slightly different perspectives (otherwise known as binocular vision).   

 

And in light MUCH too dim for a camera to function, one can still get good views and appreciate details with a good pair of bins.

 

Your photo only has a 2-dimensional screen (versus brushy or multilayer foliage 3-D obscurement), and with large gaps at that.  Most of the time decent looks at birds in heavy cover with bins would yield ZERO with a camera.   

 

Sorry @Peter Connan, but I do not agree with the notion that cameras are better all-around than bins for identifying birds.   Only in certain circumstances.  Cameras are a supplement at best.

 

Having tried to bird using a camera after having accidentally left bins at home a couple of times, I can say it SUCKS.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by offshorebirder

[Dave Williams]

And the point @Peter Connan and myself is making is that the camera remembers what it's seen, if you can get a shot. My memory is not up to it, especially if you see several new birds in one day. Each to our own eh!

PS I'd match my camera against a pair of Swarovskis for low light imaging too.

[Game Warden]

Remember that this is a light hearted discussion topic aimed at helping first time birders instead of putting them off. Do you believe that such discussion, (which appears to be getting argumentative in my opinion), including emphasising your point of view with shouting will help those first time birders?

 

Do I really have to keep an eye on this topic? Or should I lock it now to prevent it spiralling?

 

Matt

 

 

[kittykat23uk]

I  take both bins and camera into the field when birding and am never without my bins when birding. For me a scope is optional except in certain circumstances such as when seawatching.

 

My strategy is to scan with bins to pick out birds at distance and switch to the camera when I see a good photo opportunity.

 

The thing that swings it for me is that you have far more control over focusing what you are seeing through bins than through a lens.

 

Quite often I might see a quick fly over of a bird and be able to ID it through my bins in that short time but wouldn't have been able to pick it up in the viewfinder in that time. 

 

If you learn to ID birds in the field you will become a better birder, particularly with confusion species that can't easily be told apart with only a photograph.  

[Dave Williams]

@Game WardenNo need to worry on my behalf.

 

@kittykat23ukApologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but In some instances you might be better using manual focus rather than auto with your camera lens. I'm thinking when you have dense undergrowth like the shot I posted above. The other option is to use the back button for focussing so that it' doesn't alter what's in focus when you press the shutter button.

I agree that picking up a bird in flight can be awkward .

As for ID'ing a bird in the field ( and I'm differentiating between a new species and one you have seen before and recognise), no one has mentioned that they carry their bird guide book with them.It's something I avoid as I'm already overloaded anyway which is also why on occasion the 'bins stay at home too.

 

[kittykat23uk]

Well I think this is a key difference between a "birder" and a "bird photographer". Certainly,  those birder friends of mine wouldn't contemplate leaving the house without their field guides and would at least have one in the car if not on their person to review a problem species.

 

Myself, I tend to just have bins and camera to hand but I'm often in the company of a more experienced birder friend who is less into photography and more into birding and who usually has his field guide to hand;  but of course having a field guide is an essential birding tool and I certainly wouldn't contemplate taking a safari without swatting up on the birds with a local country field guide.  

[kittykat23uk]

As for the subject of this thead,  there are some very good optics available for less than £100. My mum bought a pair of opticron oregons for our trip to South Africa and they were optically very good at that price point. Certainly good enough for anyone starting out in the hobby. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by kittykat23uk

[Tdgraves]

In the U.K. I will be walking, so weight is an issue. Therefore it is usually just a camera.  Guess it depends on what kind of environment you are in also. On safari, I am usually in a vehicle, so bins and books can also come along too 

 

i am clearly primarily a bird photographer 

[Dave Williams]

Alas, there is the rub. Birdwatchers and bird photographers are two different species that have some things in common but not everything and this is often the cause of animosity between the two as I pointed out in an earlier post . The BY thread is all about photography maybe this thread should have been posted elsewhere @Game Warden however, like most things in life there isn't necessarily a right way to do something, alternatives are available.

 

@kittykat23uk Part of the joy of travel is the planning and yes, I thumb through the guidebook trying to recognise different species but there are hundreds so I find it difficult to remember them but the BY threads are excellent for homework tests.

For my upcoming South Africa trip I already have the Sasol book but I also acquired my o/h's iPhone5 recently so I'm going to get the e version of Robert's which will be a handy lightweight alternative. I will just have to remember to take the phone out with me as it's a habit I'm not accustomed to.

Birding from the car has limitations too but it also has the advantage of being able to take everything including the kitchen sink.

Ready to go. by Dave Williams, on Flickr

My biggest lens and camera body weigh about 6 kilos, the tripod and head almost as much. My back pack considerably more depending on what I decide to take.

Yes, I am envious when I see birders out and about as they often have enough capacity to take a flask and sandwiches too.Now that is luxury birding.

 

 

[wilddog]

 

9 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

The BY thread is all about photography

@Dave Williams it is not really clear to me what you mean by the above comment.

 

My understanding is the BY is about Bird Watching ........with evidence. This off course must include photography but the quality of that photography is not the issue.

 

We are lucky to have lots of expert photographers here, with great cameras, that produce amazing photographs, which would grace any glossy bird ID book, bird magazine. But some of us are just amateurs so I hope others will not misinterpret your comment as I may have done.

 

The BY should be open to all as we all have to start somewhere.

 

Small beginnings.

[Dave Williams]

@wilddog You have mistaken my comments totally. The Big Year thread is about posting photographs of every species seen, no photograph and you can't post it !

 

No one embraces the EBC ( Every Bird Counts, just in case) more than I do. Yes I have some of the most expensive equipment you can buy but I still take some really bad shots and if needed I am happy to post them too whereas some would not. If you read any of my trip reports you would also see that I am more than happy to take the michael out of myself too.

A good photographer doesn't need the best equipment either but as I posted earlier the more reach you have with your equipment the easier it is to get inside the bird's comfort zone without causing them distress.

[Game Warden]

Back to the encouragement for those just starting out, who enjoy bird watching, with or without binos or cameras. And perhaps we could have a sub section for birds in the backyard, which may well see more members getting involved, asking questions, taking and posting photos without the need for the more expensive photography gear? What tips have you all got for birding in the backyard?

[Galana]

We are all interested in birds one way or another. Photography, of necessity, plays a large part in BY and all the best pairs of Binoculars in the world are somewhat 'ineffective' in this quest so why are folks getting somewhat tense on the subject?

I see @Dave Williams has replied whilst I am  posting this but in the now immortal words of Magnus Magnussen "I have started so I can finish".

I don't really know what I am (polite suggestions only please! ) . I am a naturalist first, a birder second and I take photos as part of the recording process. It is not unusual for me to photograph one species only to find when back home it is has morphed into another species altogether.

I never carry a 'scope. More bother than they are worth unless somebody else has one. Much the same for Field Guides. It stays in the car. (unless my guide carries one,)

Field guides weigh a ton (Fanshawe's comes in at 2.5 lbs and Sinclair's South Africa is a straight 3 lbs. No way I am lugging those along the trail. Hands free for camera with Bins in harness on one's chest whether at home or abroad. I stick to a simple camera and had to smile at the back seat of Dave's car. I cannot do that or where would the wife sit?

I see @Game Warden also types faster than I can think so will leave it there.

K.I.S.S. is an acronym I bear in mind when wondering what to pack.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Galana
amending spelling

[Earthian]

I am not a bird watcher, but an aspiring bird photographer.

I started understanding bird photography about 3 years back and i am still at it. Understanding it. I enjoy shooting birds. A nice portrait, with the right light-Good. A BIF with all elements in your favour-Better. A unique shot-with a prey or in an act, not normally seen-Best.

It is often a frustrating exercise since we aspire to get as close as we can (photographers, that is) and birds don't like it when we come close. I have met some bird watchers who pursue a list- These are serious ones, who enjoy watching birds and adding the sights to their tally. They don't like photographers very much, and i too try and keep my distance. About 2 months back, i met a gent who had come all the way from Australia to sight Grey Hypocolius which is a winter visitor to Gujarat, India. He had provided for 4 days  to sight this. Amazing dedication to one's passion. He had other birds in his checklist, but the primary reason to come to India was the Grey Hypocolius. While we were talking at dinner, he shared that his tally was just over 1,000 species  and that the top gun in the field had 8 times more. ( Was he talking about https://www.birdlife.org/worldwide/news/man-has-just-broken-world-record, Arjan Dwarshuis  or was it one of  http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/surfbirds/display.cgi?list=list1&lowVal=0&highVal=49) Would i ever do that? Most probably not.

 

I have a field guide, but when in the field, i rather take that elusive photograph, rather than check out the identity of the bird. I agree with @Peter Connan and @Dave Williams, that identification of birds is easier, or less difficult when comparing the photograph with the field guide.

 

@Game Warden

 

I use a 200-500mm, f5.6 and a 600mm f4.0; as the lens of choice during bird photography. I find that anything smaller leaves one feeling dissatisfied, particularly when you are in an habitat where birds are not used to human presence, and the birds do not allow one to get close. Earlier, i used to carry the D3s and D850 along with other gear, but increasingly i find that i am now weary of lugging heavy equipment all over the place. It is now mostly the D850 and the 200-500mm; though the IQ of the 200-500mm is nowhere near the 600mm prime. Though i carry a pair of binoculars, i hardly seem to use them. Over time, i have now have a cursory understanding of sorts of the birds family, which makes the species identification slightly less difficult. Would i stop photographing that bird, when a tiger is sighted? Definitely yes. So a birder i am not, i guess.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Earthian
house keeping

[TonyQ]

For first time/new birders...

If you have been on safari, you probably have some binoculars. If not, you don't have to spend a fortune to get a pair 

If you have a camera, try using it for birds. If the birds are close you can get some decent photos. The more you look, and the more photos you take, the better you will get. Don't be disheartened by poor photos- everyone takes lots of them!

Enjoy looking at common birds and watching their behaviour. I started three years ago and was surprised how many different birds there are locally (and to be honest how many birds there are). 

Get a book that helps identify birds in your local area.

If you enjoy it, you can get better binoculars and/or camera/lens - or not as you may be happy with what you have.

It is supposed to be fun so get out and enjoy yourself.

 

[Earthian]

17 minutes ago, TonyQ said:

 

It is supposed to be fun so get out and enjoy yourself.

 

Small correction, Tony.

 

It is fun.

[Dave Williams]

My thoughts on back yard birding for what they are worth:-

Back yard birding is a bit like everything else, depends what resources you have at your disposal but appropriate food and drink will of course increase the likelihood of different species coming in to your garden. In my own backyard the birds themselves are often targeted by the likes of the Sparrowhawk who have learnt the advantages of urban birding so providing a place to escape nearby such as a thick bush is extremely handy too.

The advantage of backyard birding is you have everything at your disposal including a ready made hide. You also dictate where the food and drink is to be positioned so you can do so to take advantage of whatever equipment you have if you want to photograph them. I personally am not too keen on birds on feeder shots but there's no logical reason for it. I don't like birds on any man made objects really, again my illogical thought process, so I hang feeders on posts made of branches so they have a perch that looks a bit more natural.One of the pleasures I get is engineering a shot. Drill a log with a few holes and stuff peanuts in and you get a natural looking Woodpecker shot for example.

One of the great mysteries to me is why so many bird photographers are drawn to the fine detail of everything they photograph and I have to admit I'm guilty too. That's why you end up spending more and more to buy the best gear you can afford. I keep on trying to kick the habit, in fact I have started to try and fight it in my current BY 2019 thread but no doubt I'll be posting more frame fillers than tiny spec shots. I guess it's the fascination of the minute details the eye can't pick up that shows off the incredible natural design of our feathered friends that makes us want to do it.

Anyway, my thought on bird food is also "you get what you pay for". The cheapest bags of bird seeds contain many seeds the birds don't want to eat so they end up being tossed out of the feeder and before you know it you have every variety of cereal crops growing in the garden to say nothing of encouraging rodents too. Whole Sunflower seeds leave a huge amount of mess from the discarded shells but the hearts themselves don't and they also attract a large variety of birds too so I buy them by the sack load to try and make the cost per kilo as cheap as possible. They last for months if stored correctly too.I also feed fat balls and peanuts too

Feeding live mealworms is a proven huge benefit to nesting/ chick feeding birds, and although I have read people saying you shouldn't feed things like peanuts during this period personally I do. The parent birds are not stupid and won't try and feed them to their young from what I have seen but what they can do is feed themselves so all the grubs they find go to rearing their chicks.

Food doesn't always have to be shop bought either, growing different plants will attract insects or produce berries and fruits or if you are lucky enough to live  in such a place, nectar for hummingbirds and sunbirds. You need to plan ahead.

[Dave Williams]

1 hour ago, Galana said:

I stick to a simple camera and had to smile at the back seat of Dave's car. I cannot do that or where would the wife sit?

 

 

Mine is usually lying on a sun bed but if I am really lucky  and she accompanies me she can drive and manoeuvre me in to the best position for a shot. If she takes a photo it's never with a camera, it's with her phone.Not everyone is obsessed in our household!

[Towlersonsafari]

Wonderfully there seem to be as may diferent type of birder and /or birding photographer as there are bird! And whilst I don't partake of the Big Year it is wonderful watching folks totals and experiences and sheer enjoyment of birds and photoraphy.

When I started out bird watching it was with my father, as an initially relunctant teenager forced to go for a walk, but enthuisiam is a contagious thing-whether its your dad or this thread, and it is a hobby with so many starnds -keeping lists, keeping garden lists, just watching out the window at work as a bird of prey slips by, or as the gulls go home to roost and so for what it is worth, here are my top tips

1.binoculars are , in my view, a must. I also use opticron as a very good value ethical make. But I have never quite got into the use of the camera as an ident tool so what do I know.They are a lot cheaper though!

2.A scope-how patient are you? I have the attention span of a ....forgot what I was on about... so whilst I have one, I raely use it best -for duck and wader fanatics

3.A field guide-at home or in the holiday cottage/tent whilst the  the phone apps are also wonderful-when in the filed

4,Which brings me on to calls-learning how to identify at least the common call adds a whole new dimention to watching birds, as well as helping identifaction

5.The first rule about Bird Club-There is no  rule about bird Club save remember the birds welfare--I can "bird" whilst looking at the garden, getting pleasure just from watching house sparrows or our local Bullfinches, or visiting a reserve hoping for a special sigting, or watching interesting behavour from a common species. , its all birding and it all counts.

here's to a splendid Birding Big Year to you all

[Game Warden]

3 minutes ago, Towlersonsafari said:

its all birding and it all counts.

 

Just that

[Tdgraves]

9 minutes ago, Towlersonsafari said:

5.The first rule about Bird Club-There is no  rule about bird Club

 

and the second rule of bird club, never tell anyone about bird club...

[kittykat23uk]

If you live in the UK then here is the perfect way to get started and contribute to conservation:

 

https://www.rspb.org.uk/get-involved/activities/birdwatch/?channel=paidsearch&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvebhBRD5ARIsAIQUmnlsv9KAHlM3lFjNnVqr0L7NdG_K9MUkdYhgH8k_Jv7a1qtI1rfHP5oaAulHEALw_wcB